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US Cloud soon illegal in EU? US punches first hole in EU-US Data Deal by belter

US Cloud soon illegal in EU? US punches first hole in EU-US Data Deal by belter

US Cloud soon illegal in EU? US punches first hole in EU-US Data Deal by belter

25 Comments

  • Post Author
    NomDePlum
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:16 am

    Interesting read. I wasn't aware there was a formal process that allowed the US to snoop on EU data in cloud providers. Very big brother.

  • Post Author
    amarcheschi
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:21 am

    God I hope so

  • Post Author
    mrtksn
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:24 am

    What if EU gives a year to American cloud providers to sell their companies to a European owner?

    It's important to learn from the best. Considering the election meddling efforts from agents directly from within the US government who are also owner of large media and AI companies the only reasonable outcome would be either sell those companies to EU owners or guarantee exclusion from EU markets for national security reasons.

  • Post Author
    ChemSpider
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:27 am

    In my main job we provide SaaS services. We get more and more requests for "EU located" services.

    A new trend I see is that some customers even rule out using EU located servers that are owned/run by US companies (such as the AWS Dublin or Franfurt locations).

  • Post Author
    juliangmp
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:27 am

    > Thousands of EU businesses, government agencies or schools rely on these provisions. Without the TADPF, they would need to stop using US cloud providers like Apple, Google, Microsoft or Amazon instantly.

    Please God let this happen

  • Post Author
    Gravityloss
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:31 am

    One thing is a bit unclear here. US headquartered cloud providers have physical data centers in EU. Would this also prevent EU businesses from using those?

  • Post Author
    throwue
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:32 am

    [flagged]

  • Post Author
    fergie
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:36 am

    It already is in practice. You can't legally use cloud services for "red" (personal information) or "black" (national security) data in most jurisdictions.

    Some organizations that are deeply invested in a given tech provider do it anyway, but this is gradually going away.

  • Post Author
    rustc
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:38 am

    What cloud services are there that operate exclusively in the EU? Hetzner has servers in US now so I guess they also won't be an alternative?

  • Post Author
    xeonmc
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:38 am

    Would Cloudflare fall under this category?

  • Post Author
    dathinab
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:42 am

    Honestly most non lobbyist people here in the EU has been expecting this to fall apart sooner or later, even without Trump.

    Some companies have gone further and not only are assuming data transfer to the EU will become illegal but also that European daughter companies (e.g. MS) might become illegal for some use-cases (e.g. lawyer documents).

  • Post Author
    tomtomistaken
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:44 am

    EU should make a own cloud storage (hosted in the EU) giving every citizen 10GB of base storage after applying for it. Cloud is critical infrastructure. Besides, that would lift also the favorability of the EU.

  • Post Author
    suraci
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:46 am

    eu is the digital colony of the US, it has no other choice

    politicians like von der Leyen will make sure it's not gonna happen.

  • Post Author
    seper8
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:47 am

    This is economical suicide for most European companies.

  • Post Author
    yearesadpeople
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:47 am
  • Post Author
    pjmlp
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 10:52 am

    Followed by OS, could not have those backdoors there.

    Finally it is going to be the year of SuSE Linux Desktop, and Jolla.

    Maybe we could have a second coming of Nokia N900 as well.

  • Post Author
    ArtTimeInvestor
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 11:05 am

    Are there any publicly traded cloud companies in the EU besides OVH, IONOS and Nebius?

    I have looked into these 3 so far and was not too impressed. Would like to look at more, if there are some.

  • Post Author
    nonrandomstring
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 11:24 am

    International relations with US tech has been a serious talking point
    for over 25 years at least. Some good talking points here [0]

    [0] https://cybershow.uk/episodes.php?id=31

  • Post Author
    ilove196884
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 11:35 am

    EU holds all the cards here. Aws and azure have everything to lose. Europe has competitors but the offerings are fragmented between different companies. If they come together then yes they can have replacement for most users. Most users don't need bleeding edge features. Painful but can be done. Definitely not impossible.

  • Post Author
    tticvs
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 11:44 am

    I suspect that this is going to fall into the "nothing ever happens" bucket.

    What they're implying is that it is illegal for US companies to comply with EU law.

    This is significantly different than the EU enforcing the GDPR extraterritorially since that's basically just an increased cost of doing business in Europe and is apparently worth it.

    But if the US companies have to choose between complying with US extraterritorial law or EU extraterritorial law they're going to have to choose the US, for obvious reasons.

    It doesn't seem to me that convenient legal subsidiary structures or data physicality setups are gonna work here.

    The effect of US companies withdrawing cloud services would be devastating to the EU. Imagine if you could no longer access your gmail or outlook account, your apple or google photos disappear , whatsapp shuts down, all you companies documents are no longer accessible on Office365 or G drive.

    The results would be indistinguishable from a massive cyber attack and would take decades to recover from.

    There's just no way the EU would inflict a wound of this magnitude on itself.

  • Post Author
    jsnell
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 11:45 am

    A lot of people here seem to be interpreting "Cloud" as as "public Cloud infrastructure provider". Note that this isn't just a question of AWS, Azure and GCP. It's about any kind of hosted services. So it would also apply to things like Dropbox, Slack, Gmail, WhatsApp, iCloud, etc.

    (But it also wouldn't be a ban on personal use of such services, as long as the user consents. It'd "just" be very hard to use those services in business or government.)

  • Post Author
    Havoc
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 12:11 pm

    Given how unreliable the US is becoming a bit of distance might not be a bad thing.

  • Post Author
    leowoo91
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 12:13 pm

    FYI, there is already a type of deployment called "sovereign cloud" where data exports are controlled by the country and already under works by major providers.

  • Post Author
    jc_811
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 12:59 pm

    Worth noting that there is a European company (I believe headquartered in Sweden) whose mission is to build an EU-first cloud to compete with the large US offerings.

    Evroc[1] is their name and I’ve been following them for a few years now. They raised a large amount in 2023 [2] and looks like they’ve just broken ground on land to build a data center just last week [3]

    Very curious on how this will work for them and I plan on following their journey very closely. Any EU-based cloud engineers should apply to join!

    [1] https://evroc.com/

    [2] https://sifted.eu/articles/evroc-plans-e600m-investment

    [3] https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/swedens-evroc-acq…

  • Post Author
    silexia
    Posted February 6, 2025 at 2:30 pm

    The EU has become increasingly irrelevant due to it's draconian communist laws.

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