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They Thought They Were Free, by Milton Mayer, an Excerpt by thunderbong

They Thought They Were Free, by Milton Mayer, an Excerpt by thunderbong

They Thought They Were Free, by Milton Mayer, an Excerpt by thunderbong

25 Comments

  • Post Author
    Avicebron
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 5:34 am

    [flagged]

  • Post Author
    antigeox
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 5:36 am

    [flagged]

  • Post Author
    RangerScience
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 5:51 am

    > What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

    Welp.

  • Post Author
    groby_b
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 5:51 am

    It is probably good to remember that this talks about the experience of a German, under Hitler's Nazi government.

    This isn't a text that refers to current events. It talks about what happened. How things progressed. Why everybody just ambled along. How it was possible that so many just went along.

    If you think there are parallels to current times, or if you feel this attacks you or your beliefs, there is value in thinking about "why". What is it about this story that reaches you? What are you willing to learn from it?

  • Post Author
    chitw00d
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 5:59 am

    [dead]

  • Post Author
    pagutierrezn
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 6:14 am

    To make matters worse, this is not only "rehappening" in the US. It's global

  • Post Author
    muglug
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 6:41 am

    I don’t feel like the comparisons to Hitler are useful, at least when talking about the current US administration.

    There are lots more recent examples — Russia in the early 2000s under Putin, Hungary under Orban, South Africa under Apartheid — where democratic norms were gradually eroded, and the international community just sort of sighed and said "oh well, the people have spoken".

  • Post Author
    roenxi
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 6:46 am

    Given their failure to resist Trump over the last 8 years and the apparent risk to their persons; should the Democratic party perhaps voluntarily disband?

  • Post Author
    tivert
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 6:49 am

    Oh, goody. Isn't it great the Democrats prioritized keeping "the groups" and their donors happy? You know, instead of actually reorganizing around countering the existential threat they complained so loudly about?

  • Post Author
    ed
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 6:53 am

    For those who want to do something, what is the 2025 version of Indivisible?

  • Post Author
    pessimizer
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 6:56 am

    [flagged]

  • Post Author
    LandoCalrissian
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 7:00 am

    President is unilaterally shutting down federal agencies. If this goes on there really isn't a constitution anymore, not in practice anyway.

  • Post Author
    LarsDu88
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 7:09 am

    HackerNews is suddenly getting political content at the very top, right after PG slams the "woke" agenda.

    Is the HN crowd finally waking up to what a danger to the US the "most successful startup entrepreneur of all time" is?

  • Post Author
    hcfman
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 7:36 am

    This part is interesting:

    "What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security."

    That has already happened here in the Netherlands. Except it was organised crime. It's so difficult to fight we can't just convict them in court anymore, we need to fight them extrajudicially". So the RIEC was formed "Regional information expertise centrum". And extra judicial actions called "interventions" do happen and they do commit crimes to innocent civilians not related to organised crime in anyway. And they get away with it. And the Dutch population is by and large blissfully unware of what has happened. Most have no idea what that organisation is, but that organisation controls the police, the council, the tax department and about 13 sub-parts of government and gives them orders to carry out as part of their "interventions".

    The general population would not even know the name RIEC. All they know are recent advertisements on TV encouraging people to report any suspicious behaviour happening in their neighbourhoods. These people are stupid. They could report something they misinterpreted and unwittingly destroy some innocent persons lives with the extra-judicial interventions that followed.

    But yeah, as someone below has said, what's now happening is on a whole other level.

  • Post Author
    noduerme
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 7:41 am

    "The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's happened in American society, particularly the silence, confusion and cowering now of anyone who should oppose a hostile takeover and dismantling of our democracy and our laws, are striking. It should have been required reading in American schools, when there was still time to educate people against these dangers.

  • Post Author
    msravi
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 7:47 am

    [flagged]

  • Post Author
    mjfl
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 7:51 am

    [flagged]

  • Post Author
    etchalon
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 8:02 am

    I was recommended this book a few months ago, by a friend's partner.

    Reading it was difficult, and impossible not to see the parallels of what we were approaching.

    This excerpt is phenomenal on its own, but the full book is worth your time.

  • Post Author
    molteanu
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 8:09 am

    Don't let hacker news become habituated with politics.

  • Post Author
    dr_dshiv
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 8:13 am

    >"Once the war began," my colleague continued, "resistance, protest, criticism, complaint, all carried with them a multiplied likelihood of the greatest punishment. Mere lack of enthusiasm, or failure to show it in public, was ‘defeatism.’ You assumed that there were lists of those who would be ‘dealt with’ later, after the victory. Goebbels was very clever here, too. He continually promised a ‘victory orgy’ to ‘take care of’ those who thought that their ‘treasonable attitude’ had escaped notice. And he meant it; that was not just propaganda. And that was enough to put an end to all uncertainty.

    Terrifying. This anti-speech is anathema to all Americans. Let’s remember that. By recalling what all Americans have as a sacred self-belief (myth even), that America is anti-Nazi and anti-dictatorship and pro-freedom and pro-speech, we can effectively strengthen our ties.

    What seems to drive Trump at his core is not ideology, but ego. On their path to power, both he and Musk could have been democrats, but they were rejected.

    Together, they share the goal of creating the greatest presidency in American history. At some point, this may be a better scenario than the alternative.

    The election is past: “winning” and defeating the opposition are less relevant now than creative strategies for generating positive outcomes from the current situation.

    Outrage feeds the demons. There may be other, more effective (but less emotionally satisfying) paths to mutual-self-interest. In conflict with the very powerful, redirection often works better than direct opposition.

  • Post Author
    oldpersonintx
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 8:17 am

    [dead]

  • Post Author
    Waterluvian
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 8:37 am

    > "You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow.

    I felt this for four years straight last time.

    But what scares me far more is if very large, recklessly shocking occasions occur and the resisters are nowhere to be seen. I keep hoping to wake up to footage of mass protests and riots and fires and anger and aggressive intolerance of these shocking occasions.

  • Post Author
    vintagedave
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 8:59 am

    > How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.

    The rest of this excerpt is harrowing.

  • Post Author
    gspr
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 10:02 am

    This is one of the best books I ever read. I picked it up pretty randomly a few years back. It changed me.

    Before reading it, I was firmly of the opinion that good people (like me! and everyone I like!) will (mostly) resist a fascist takeover. At least passively resist. As in not actively collaborate. Mostly. Reading that book obliterated almost all of those beliefs. (What little was left was destroyed by having children, and actually directly experiencing what it means when people say "I'll do anything for them").

    I think it's the most upset I've been since I was a child and asked my parents why people suffering in a war on the news didn't just say that they don't wanna be in the game anymore. Because that was the rule that applied in kindergarten.

    This all sounds very depressing. But read the book. It's a damn important book. (And it's very short and almost free – just read it).

  • Post Author
    bigbacaloa
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 10:10 am

    [dead]

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