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Take this on-call rotation and shove it by mirawelner

Take this on-call rotation and shove it by mirawelner

16 Comments

  • Post Author
    dylan604
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 9:18 pm

    " insure against every possible thing that could ever go wrong, they would have to build a second studio on a separate part of the city’s electric grid, with redundant copies of all the equipment and broadcast content, along with a full crew of understudies ready to take over at a moment’s notice."

    WTH?? I guess this person has never heard of backup generators? Every broadcast TV station has them.

  • Post Author
    boznz
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 9:41 pm

    What they don't tell you about working for yourself is the fact you can be effectively on-call 24×7 every day. I am currently supporting four wineries that are processing thousands of tonnes of receivals 24×7. It happens for two months of the year and I am expected to be available from 06:00 to 22:00 during that time, there is no phoning in sick or having a lazy day, I work alone and only have one reputation. I don't want to be that contractor forever known for destroying a clients business.

    You can only do this for so long though, when two or three problems come in simultaneously it can cause issues as you drop something halfway through when something more important comes in. I once executed an SQL update query without a where clause under this kind of pressure, and ended up working until the next morning to recover, only to start again at 6AM. I have even had land-line calls at 2AM to bypass my mobile restrictions. The rewards are great, but don't let anyone tell you it is always easy.

    My current system is 16 years old now and I know all the ins and outs so it has been pretty easy to keep on top of things the last several years, however I am glad the replacement system is nearly written and it will be somebody else problem in 2026.

  • Post Author
    flerchin
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 9:58 pm

    Jeez I guess what we do is industry standard best practice, and it sucks.

  • Post Author
    yodsanklai
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    Excellent article. I can relate to a lot of it. The sad part is that we can't even control the quality of the systems we're oncall for. We're pushed by management for new features, not for robustness of the tools. Also some systems have no clear ownership, so nobody has an incentive to fix them. It'll be next oncall's business. Oncall is really the worst part of my job. I can stand long hours but this is something else.

  • Post Author
    Kwpolska
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 10:21 pm

    That seems like a very long-winded way to say you hate on-call, which is a completely normal thing to do. That said, is on-call effectively mandatory or very popular in the US startup world? Because here, in the European established company world, I can’t really recall seeing a job posting with on-call listed.

  • Post Author
    slt2021
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 10:22 pm

    being oncall forces the quality of software to improve.

    if you want fewer incidents: ensure better QA, monitoring, smaller rollouts

    usually developers start becoming more conservative after they do few oncall shifts and suddenly prioritize important reliability improvements, instead of shiny new features nobody will use

  • Post Author
    Animats
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 10:24 pm

    For "non-exempt" employees, that's paid "stand-by time" California.[1] Also see this case involving on-call coroners.[2]

    The way this works in most unionized jobs is that there's a stand-by rate paid for on-call hours, plus a minimum number of hours at full or overtime pay, usually four, when someone is called to duty. This is useful to management – if the call frequency is too high, it becomes cheaper to hire an additional person.

    [1] https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/CallBackAndStandbyTime.pdf

    [2] https://casetext.com/case/berry-v-county-of-sonoma

  • Post Author
    mjcarden
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 10:25 pm

    This article gave me unpleasant flashbacks to the first half of 2023. I resigned from planet.com in mid 2023 due to the stress caused by being on-call every second week. It took me six months to get my head into a healthy state again. Now I have a much better job, better paid and no possibility of on-call, ever.

  • Post Author
    purplejacket
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 10:28 pm

    Here's an idea: Compensate any on-call work received during off hours at 10X the normal hourly rate. E.g., if my salary is $150K per year, then my hourly pay rate is about $75 per hour, so compensate my on call work at a rate of $750 per hour. Thus if I get a call at 10pm, log in to my laptop and work for 30 minutes to resolve the issue to a satisfactory level, then I pocket $375. That puts a financial incentive on companies to structure their on call protocols so that only the most important calls are handled. And I can envision variations on this theme. Different sorts of on-call disasters could offer bids for how much they're worth to fix based on some automated rubrick, and anyone on the ENG team could pick these up on a first-come, first-serve basis. Or various combinations of the above for a guaranteed backup person. But the companies should offer enough incentive to make it worthwhile. And this is in the companies' own best interest. To maintain a workforce that can think clearly during the normal work, to have a good reputation in the industry, to get good reviews on Glassdoor, etc.

  • Post Author
    dadkins
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 10:55 pm

    I just want to point out that the answer is shift work. Here's an example of an SRE job at a national lab:

    https://lbl.referrals.selectminds.com/jobs/site-reliability-…

    "Work 5 shifts per week to monitor the NERSC HPC Facility, which includes 2 – 3 OWL (midnight – 8am) shifts. Some days may be onsite, some may be offsite. The schedule will be determined by staffing needs."

    40 hours per week, full salary, full disclosure about the night shifts, but none of this 24×7 wake up in the middle of the night on top of your regular job bullshit that the tech industry insists on.

  • Post Author
    smackeyacky
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 11:08 pm

    That article made me shudder with echos of having what we used to call “beeper madness” back in the 1990s. After a while of being on a roster of on call weeks, anything that beeped would make you reach for that pager on your belt.

    As a kid the first few weeks were kind of exciting as it felt like you had been elevated to a new level of responsibility. Once that wore off it was obvious what a cage it was.

    I don’t miss pagers.

  • Post Author
    chris_wot
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 11:13 pm

    There is another option. The on-call person just does a deliberately piss-poor job of resolving the problem. I mean, they resolve it but they make sure it takes a hour longer than necessary.

    What are they going to do, fire you? If they make life hard for you, then get another job. The shoddier your work outside of your normal hours, the better. You can have quality, speed and cheapness, but you can only pick two.

  • Post Author
    denkmoon
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 11:40 pm

    I was on call in a 4 man startup for a 1 week rotation for about 9 months, 6 years ago. I still have an anxiety reaction when my phone rings. Can very much relate to the author's thoughts about PTSD.

  • Post Author
    nhumrich
    Posted March 27, 2025 at 11:43 pm

    The difference with dev oncall vs doctor on call is that it is self inflicted.
    Why are you getting paged? Because you built the system.
    Either your system isn't resilient enough, or you have noisy alerts. Both are problems you should be motivated to fix.

    I have been on call 24/7/52 in SRE roles most of my career. It has either sucked hard, or not at all. And the time it sucked the most was because every single practice was bad. And now, I build better things because of if. Paying me more for on call wouldn't have changed how much it sucked. It wouldn't have made any material impact on my actual quality of life. But it would have done two things:
    1) made me feel like I can't complain
    2) give me less motivation to fix it

    Paying for on call doesn't seem like a win. I want happy employees, not disgruntled but silent ones.

  • Post Author
    lopatin
    Posted March 28, 2025 at 12:04 am

    The OP needs to write with some more focus. Most of this reads like a very long rant by someone who was woken up too many times recently.

    > We need to talk about Kafka

    No we don't, that entire section was irrelevant.

  • Post Author
    nullorempty
    Posted March 28, 2025 at 12:23 am

    Yeah, I can relate to people saying they nearly got PTSD, I sure did get it. Paging apps use seriously offensive alarm sounds. I hated every sound they had in the options. It made me instantly sick. Fuck that!

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