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S1: The $6 R1 Competitor? by tkellogg

6 Comments

  • Post Author
    bberenberg
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 12:38 pm

    In case you’re not sure what S1 is, here is the original paper: https://arxiv.org/html/2501.19393v1

  • Post Author
    ttyprintk
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 12:42 pm
  • Post Author
    yapyap
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 12:53 pm

    > If you believe that AI development is a prime national security advantage, then you absolutely should want even more money poured into AI development, to make it go even faster.

    This, this is the problem for me with people deep in AI. They think it’s the end all be all for everything. They have the vision of the ‘AI’ they’ve seen in movies in mind, see the current ‘AI’ being used and to them it’s basically almost the same, their brain is mental bridging the concepts and saying it’s only a matter of time.

    To me, that’s stupid. I observe the more populist and socially appealing CEOs of these VC startups (Sam Altman being the biggest, of course.) just straight up lying to the masses, for financial gain, of course.

    Real AI, artificial intelligence, is a fever dream. This is machine learning except the machines are bigger than ever before. There is no intellect.

    and the enthusiasm of these people that are into it feeds into those who aren’t aware of it in the slightest, they see you can chat with a ‘robot’, they hear all this hype from
    their peers and they buy into it. We are social creatures after all.

    I think using any of this in a national security setting is stupid, wasteful and very, very insecure.

    Hell, if you really care about being ahead, pour 500 billion dollars into quantum computing so u can try to break current encryption. That’ll get you so much further than this nonsensical bs.

  • Post Author
    GTP
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 1:09 pm

    Sorry for being lazy, but I just don't have the time right now to read the paper. Is there in the paper or somewhere else a comparison based on benchmarks of S1 vs R1 (the full R1, not quantized or distilled)?

  • Post Author
    swiftcoder
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 1:25 pm

    > having 10,000 H100s just means that you can do 625 times more experiments than s1 did

    I think the ball is very much in their court to demonstrate they actually are using their massive compute in such a productive fashion. My BigTech experience would tend to suggest that frugality went out the window the day the valuation took off, and they are in fact just burning compute for little gain, because why not…

  • Post Author
    HenryBemis
    Posted February 5, 2025 at 1:39 pm

    > Going forward, it’ll be nearly impossible to prevent distealing (unauthorized distilling). One thousand examples is definitely within the range of what a single person might do in normal usage, no less ten or a hundred people. I doubt that OpenAI has a realistic path to preventing or even detecting distealing outside of simply not releasing models.

    (sorry for the long quote)

    I will say (naively perhaps) "oh but that is fairly simple". For any API request, add a counter of 5 seconds to the next for 'unverified' users. Make the "blue check" (a-la X/Twitter). For the 'big sales' have a third-party vetting process so that if US Corporation XYZ wants access, they prove themselves worthy/not Chinese competition and then you do give them the 1000/min deal.

    For everyone else, add the 5 second (or whatever other duration makes sense) timer/overhead and then see them drop from 1000 requests per minutes to 500 per day. Or just cap them at 500 per day and close that back-door. And if you get 'many cheap accounts' doing hand-overs (AccountA does 1-500, AccountB does 501-1000, AccountC does 1001-1500, and so on) then you mass block them.

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