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Launch HN: Maritime Fusion (YC W25) – Fusion Reactors for Ships by jtcohen

Launch HN: Maritime Fusion (YC W25) – Fusion Reactors for Ships by jtcohen

40 Comments

  • Post Author
    echoangle
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 4:50 pm

    How much design on an actual reactor can you do already if the whole technology isn't even demonstrated yet? How many changes are you prepared to do based on the results of the current scientific reactors?

  • Post Author
    actionfromafar
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 4:56 pm

    Why specifically target maritime? Getting a stationary reactor to 25MWe at all would be an incredible feat in itself.

  • Post Author
    ilrwbwrkhv
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 4:56 pm

    Hot stuff. Both literally and figuratively. An energy breakthrough is really required to get the world back on track. My thesis is that the longer it takes for us to get on the fusion train the more craziness we will see in the world. Wish you all the best and will follow your journey.

  • Post Author
    kposehn
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 4:59 pm

    Very cool. If you could also make a smaller one with ~3kw output that fits on a locomotive frame you'd literally have the entire freight rail industry the world over as customers.

  • Post Author
    DennisP
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:06 pm

    If it's small enough to fit in every ship used in a carrier group, you could revolutionize US naval operations.

    The carrier is nuclear powered and can travel at its top speed indefinitely. But it doesn't except briefly in emergencies, because the rest of the group is powered by oil and would quickly run out of fuel.

  • Post Author
    scrumper
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:08 pm

    "First-wall power flux" – am I right in thinking that means the heat energy the innermost wall has to contain? Half a megawatt per square meter? Good lord. You're not making it out of 3/4" plywood then.

    Maintenance isn't just about downtime though right? This is gonna have to be supported by your crews traveling globally with trade secret, exotic parts. Not even on the top ten hardest things about this of course.

    It's an exciting bet for sure, so good luck – if it works, you're taking a big bite out of a really nasty carbon source.

  • Post Author
    ninetyninenine
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:09 pm

    How about first getting fusion to work for reality before getting it working for maritime.

  • Post Author
    elijahbenizzy
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:09 pm

    Really excited about this! Congrats on the launch. Ships make sense as a first target, but I'm curious — do you see a future in which we have household fission reactors? E.G. power an entire house (city block, etc…) with fission reactors?

  • Post Author
    pavlov
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:24 pm

    > “focusing on military vessels … [we] come from SpaceX and Tesla”

    So you guys are basically part of the MAGA military complex? Why do you need YC?

    Is funding your moonshot concept a way for YC to signal something politically?

  • Post Author
    ramshanker
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:29 pm

    Excellent initiative. From the 1st reading, it does seem "within the realms of current technology". All the best.

    I have a small question. Which CAD / 3D / Physics software is used for such design and simulations ?

  • Post Author
    baking
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:36 pm

    What kind of a blanket are you using and how thick is it? Seems like that would be the determining factor for size and cost.

  • Post Author
    gpm
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:39 pm

    So your approach to fusion is "the same CFS but stay at roughly the size of the SPARC prototype instead of scaling up"?

    When you say "Q > 1 within a few (say 3) years" are you talking about your own reactors, or others? For that matter, are you trying to partner with CFS and license their technology or are you intending on starting "from scratch" (from whatever is publicly available)?

    If that timeline is for fusion in general, what do you think your timeline looks like? Assuming adequate access to funding how soon can you build a Q>1 reactor? How soon after that can you actually go to market and sell a reactor?

    On an unrelated note, I'm curious what you think of the current approaches to commercial fusion being attempted. Are Tokamaks the only game in town in your mind? Or do the various other approaches also being tried out right now have a good shot (MIF/Zpinches/etc)? Any particular approaches you think are particularly likely to succeed.

    This being ycombinator and a startup I'm obligated to say that I don't ask this question because I think it impacts your commercial viability much, the greatest risks in fusion definitely aren't the competitors. I ask it just because I'm curious what people willing to start a fusion company think of the competitors.

    Ships make a ton of sense to me as an early market. An 11 figure market (according to my own napkin calculations awhile back) where power is much more expensive than on land. At the same time it's never struck me that the hardest part of building a fusion company is finding a market.

  • Post Author
    buildsjets
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:39 pm

    If you are fantasizing the implementation of an imaginary future technology, why not fusion power for SPACE ships?

  • Post Author
    nasmorn
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:43 pm

    YC26 featuring Mokkatok – fusion for third wave coffee shops.
    You heard it here first

  • Post Author
    uranium
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:45 pm

    "Downtime for maintenance is part of normal operations, making this a far more forgiving early application of fusion, unlike the grid where every down hour is lost revenue."

    Planned maintenance, sure, but unplanned maintenance means the same lost revenue, plus you're stuck floating in the middle of the pacific ocean, possibly in need of parts or debugging expertise that only exists half a planet away or, for that matter, food. It's certainly a good idea to find a niche to make market entry easier, but I would guess that reliability requirements are actually higher for ships than for microgrids. Find some isolated town or island running off flaky diesel generators on shipped-in fuel and negotiate a reasonable SLA.

    This ignores, of course, the bigger problem: making fusion work at all at Q > 1. If it were me, I'd work on solving that before worrying too much about optimizing market entry. So far every single fusion effort has failed to clear that hurdle, and any effort on the other parts is wasted if you can't actually make power.

  • Post Author
    phtrivier
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:48 pm

    > and we believe we’ll witness Q > 1 within a few (say 3) years. That’s huge.

    I think it fits squarely in the "requires extraordinary evidence" bucket – what makes you so bold ?

    Also, what's you intermediate plans between :

    2025 -> Post on HN

    2028 -> Q>1 achieved (by you ? by someone else ?)

    ???? -> ????

    20xx -> a ship goes to sea powered by a fusion reactor

    ???? -> ????

    2060 -> fusion is so easy, let's use it for baseload

    Sorry if I sound stark, but I'm already burnt out and fed up with the "breakthroughs" on batteries that never materialize – I have a very low tolerance threshold for startups promising fusion for next week ;)

    If you're on to something, more power to you – we need that yesterday.

  • Post Author
    ethagnawl
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:49 pm

    As it applies to shipping, I'm curious to know if you initially considered alternative/hybrid approaches which would augment current/modern approaches to shipping, like using sails. It seems to me like this is an obvious miss in modern (dirty) shipping.

  • Post Author
    sidcool
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:51 pm

    Congrats on launching. This is a hard area. Wish you luck.

  • Post Author
    exBarrelSpoiler
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:55 pm
  • Post Author
    bananapub
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 5:58 pm

    so, given no one knows how to use fusion to produce energy, why do you think now is the time to plan how to put this non-existent technology on to boats?

  • Post Author
    vednig
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:11 pm

    now, this is a thing that I want to see YC invest more into

  • Post Author
    aavci
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:13 pm

    What would the engine with this look like? Does it cause a lot of noise or any other damage to sea life?

  • Post Author
    algo_trader
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:15 pm

    What is the feedback from actual prospective clients?

    Did YC ask mostly about feasibility, or were they more interested in the customer's opinion?

  • Post Author
    tim333
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:17 pm

    Re Q>1, isn't that just the reaction making more power as heat than you put in and you need something like Q>5 to use the heat to make steam to make electricity to run the thing? (as in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_energy_gain_factor)

  • Post Author
    littlestymaar
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:18 pm

    > Fission works technically, but not practically. Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) could power ships

    It's not like they “could”, they do actually power more than a hundred vessels worldwide (mostly submarines, but also aircraft carriers and icebreakers (the russians have 8 of those)) ;).

  • Post Author
    SalmoShalazar
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:30 pm

    I really fail to see how the stated credentials here add up to a team that can achieve fusion on ships. I hope you’re able to hoover up enough VC money to find people who have the appropriate backgrounds to do this.

  • Post Author
    jaronchong
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:33 pm

    I'm just going to put this here. Someone please make this a reality.

    ### *"Tokamak Sailor"*
    (To the tune of "Drunken Sailor")

    *(Verse 1)*
    What shall we do with a tokamak sailor?
    What shall we do with a tokamak sailor?
    What shall we do with a tokamak sailor?
    Early in the mornin'!

    *(Chorus)*
    *Ho, ho! Fire up the plasma!*
    *Ho, ho! Fire up the plasma!*
    *Ho, ho! Fire up the plasma!*
    *Fusion in the mornin'!*

    *(Verse 2)*
    Raise the coils and heat up the torus!
    Raise the coils and heat up the torus!
    Raise the coils and heat up the torus!
    Early in the mornin'!

    (Chorus repeats)

    *(Verse 3)*
    Confine the plasma, don't let it scatter!
    Confine the plasma, don't let it scatter!
    Confine the plasma, don’t let it scatter!
    Early in the mornin'!

    (Chorus repeats)

    *(Verse 4)*
    Sail with the power of fusion glory!
    Sail with the power of fusion glory!
    Sail with the power of fusion glory!
    Early in the mornin'!

    (Final Chorus, extra loud!)
    *Ho, ho! Fire up the plasma!*
    *Ho, ho! Fire up the plasma!*
    *Ho, ho! Fire up the plasma!*
    *Fusion in the mornin'!*

    Now all aboard the reactor ship, lads! Keep that plasma hot, and may the tides be ever in our favor!

  • Post Author
    James_K
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:38 pm

    > Our tokamak is

    Use of the present tense here is interesting. Do they have a tokamak?

  • Post Author
    kikokikokiko
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:53 pm

    Sorry for being so naive but I need to ask: What is the difference between a startup dedicated to making "Fusion Reactors for Maritime Ships" and a startup dedicated to making "Anti-Gravity devices for Airplanes"? Since you're talking about applying a non existing technology to a specific market, swing for the fences and go all in.

  • Post Author
    agentultra
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 6:54 pm

    Good luck. I'd wager you'll end up pivoting to SMRs. They exist today. Are cheaper to produce. And their failure mode would be… capsizing the reactor at sea probably and running on stored diesel until you make it to port?

    We've been running reactors on ships since the 50s after all.

  • Post Author
    dsr_
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:01 pm

    What's going on in your business plan that would be different if we replaced "future tokamak" with:

    – compact CPP-violating antimatter reactor

    – super-efficient MHD turbine

    – perpetual motion engine

    – magic box which will be invented in 5 years

    No, really, I want to know what you would do differently in each of these situations.

  • Post Author
    Out_of_Characte
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:36 pm

    The mere fact that you're proposing doing this on a moving vessel already tells me you're completely incompetent. No one has made fusion net positive, somehow building a net positive fusion reactor on a boat would be fine I guess but to suggest its better than enriched uranium is dishonest. You'll have more luck building a regular fission reactor on a commercial freighter than verify a fusion reactor for any ocean capable ship.

    Have you modeled how plasma will behave when your reactor walls move tens of meters in any possible direction while rotating violently in every degree of freedom? Mind you, its not the plasma I'm concerned about. The ideal gas law keeps the atmosphere nice and steady. Its more of a combination of high magnetic field strength with salt water everywhere around the reactor that when destabilised in the slightest will cause a massive implosion.

    >Jason and I come from SpaceX and Tesla
    >in the coming decades (2050-2060)
    >we'll pivot to decarbonising the grid and saving the world

    just make a fission reactor, on land, in a pit, with a massive concrete wall between me and potential neutrons.

  • Post Author
    henry-d
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:40 pm

    This is awesome— sounds hard but rooting for you guys.

  • Post Author
    mpweiher
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:42 pm

    Cool!

    Ships were the first application that came to my mind when I read about the roughly container-sized reactor by Lockheed Skunk Worls…that didn't happen.

    Are you guys working together the Commonwealth Fusion Systems? JET-Size and HTS magnets sounds a lot like SPAR/ARC.

  • Post Author
    NotYourLawyer
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:45 pm

    Fusion will never be practical. Why not put it in an application that will ALSO never be practical?

  • Post Author
    jandrese
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:51 pm

    I think your timeline is at best optimistic. I would personally like to see fixed land based fusion power work before we start trying to build them into moving vessels.

    Your claim that the shipping industry is "desperate to decarbonize" also needs a citation. From what I've seen shippers top three concerns are "how to minimize costs", "how to reduce costs", and "how to save money". Can you make this system cheaper to operate than heavy fuel oil? If not it is unlikely to gain traction.

  • Post Author
    foobarian
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:51 pm

    Dumb layperson question: my understanding of confined plasma fusion from a while ago was that the energy flux across the enclosing boundary can not be handled by known materials without melting down. Is this still true? Not sure if you can share but would be curious to know what the "bottleneck" material is in your design as far as withstanding high temperatures/other extreme conditions goes.

  • Post Author
    nradov
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 7:54 pm

    How do you intend to address the crew training issue? Merchant vessel operators tend to hire low wage seamen with limited technical training, plus a few qualified engineering officers. Marine diesel engines are pretty simple and robust but I would imagine that operating a fusion plant might require more technical training.

  • Post Author
    lyime
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 8:24 pm

    Great to see people trying to solve hard problems!

  • Post Author
    harmalarm
    Posted February 26, 2025 at 8:29 pm

    What if we already have fusion power at sea? Water has one of the highest heat capacities of any substance in the world, and Earth is covered in it. The sun provides all the fusion energy we need while our oceans absorb and store it. What if we simply extract the stored fusion power from the ocean? Ocean Thermal

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