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The Trump administration has provided many jaw-dropping moments, but few have been as shocking as editor in chief Jeffrey Goldberg’s scoop published today. Goldberg reported on how he was inadvertently added to a discussion of a military strike on Houthi militias in Yemen, conducted over the encrypted messaging app Signal. In essence, a reporter was invited to listen while the nation’s top security officials weighed and debated a military action, and was sent detailed information about the strike.

Even President Donald Trump seemed unaware of the breach. “You’re saying that they had what?” he replied when asked about the news. Trump added that he is “not a big fan of The Atlantic,” something he’s previously made clear, and which makes the unintentional leak all the more remarkable. A spokesperson for the National Security Council said, “This appears to be an authentic message chain, and we are reviewing how an inadvertent number was added to the chain.”

I called Goldberg this afternoon to learn more about how the story came about and what the disclosure reveals about the Trump administration. This interview has been condensed and edited.

David A. Graham: Has anything like this ever happened to you before?

Jeffrey Goldberg: I think that on one level, this is very relatable. Everyone has sent a text or an email to an unintended recipient, and sometimes they’ve embarrassed themselves by doing that. This is, I would say, at a different level—but it kind of proves a point, which is that there’s a reason people who work on sensitive issues in the government aren’t supposed to use Signal, even though it is end-to-end encrypted. Anyone can use Signal, so if you’re not careful, you might pull into your conversation a Houthi sympathizer or a magazine editor.

Our colleague Shane Harris points out that the phones of top senior defense and national-security and intelligence officials are targets of intelligence operations. Imagine what you can do if you saw everything that the CIA director may be texting, even on a secure phone—especially on a secure phone. I’m mindful of the fact that the Trump team has already dealt with a serious issue in the securing of sensitive documents in