They say:
“… it would be inappropriate to make any change without clear evidence of a direct issue”
However, the threat is real:
The IETF Administration LLC has decided to continue to hold meetings in the US,
in spite of significant threats to the safety of the community in traveling there.
As an Internet community we strive to include everyone. Holding a meeting in the
US is incompatible with our values.
We call on the IETF community to refuse to travel to the 127th IETF meeting,
to be held in San Francisco.
25
Who cannot travel to the US
24
Who will refuse to attend in solidarity
189
Who otherwise support this initiative
If you are unable to travel to the US, or wish to voice your support for this boycott,
fill in the form below – your signature can be anonymous.
The US is dangerous
For many, the US was already a country for which it was not safe to travel to.
But now, it is an actively hostile state to almost anyone travelling there.
‘Surely this won’t affect me; I’m white, male, and European?’ Think again.
Here are the examples we know about of people being detained at the US border,
and put into camps:
- A French scientist was deported for holding views critical of the Trump administration.
Source: The Guardian. - A Welsh backpacker was detained for 19 days. Source:
BBC News. - A Canadian actor was detained for 2 weeks. Source:
The Guardian. - A German engineer with permanent residency in the US (Green Card) is currently being detained. Source:
The Guardian. - Two German tourists were held for two weeks and nearly two months, respectively. Source:
Deutsche Welle.
There are undoubtedly more cases we do not know about.
These people are being held in utterly inhumane conditions, often without access to appropriate
medical care, legal representation, food, nor even a bed. Some have been tortured.
Beyond problems at the border, the current Secretary for Health and Human Services – Robert F. Kennedy Jr. –
has said that he will send those with ADHD to camps. Source:
Futurism.
Even if attendees get through the border, their safety during the meeting cannot be guaranteed.
‘We can’t just cancel meeting!’
We can, and we should.
RFC 8718 sets the
criteria for the selection of a meeting venue for the IETF meetings. Amongst the core values listed
is that of inclusiveness. Specifically, the IETF should:
Avoid meeting in countries with laws that effectively exclude people on the basis of race, ethnicity,
religion, gender, sexual orientation, national origin, citizenship, or gender identity.
Additionally, RFC 9137
sets the conditions on cancelling/relocating IETF meetings. Amongst examples of situations that should
trigger a meeting cancellation are:
- War, civil unrest, or a public health crisis could make a meeting unsafe and/or result in widespread
national or corporate travel bans. - Changes in visa policies or other unexpected governmental restrictions might make the venue
inaccessible to numerous attendees.
Voice your support
Those who wish to be public
Unable to travel
Q Misell
Max-Planck Institut für Informatik
J. Heimerl-Ombeck
Annika Schramm
Helle
Alexandra Miller
Martine Lenders
Andrew Alston
Maria Matejka
CZ.NIC | BIRD
Ellie Schieder
PKI Quest
Matthias Bussonnier
Thea Barbette
Researcher at ICTEAM
Hristo Bogdanov
Nadežda von Reitzenstein Čerpnjak
Peter Körner
Seibert Group GmbH
Refusing to attend
Tobias Fiebig
MPI-INF
David ‘equinox’ Lamparter
NetDEF / FRRouting
Marc Haber
incluesion, Freelance IT Insultant
Tommy Jensen
Microsoft
Bryce A. Lynch
34 Comments
tczMUFlmoNk
Thank you. I am in the U.S. and am threatened by these measures. I'm not a member of the IETF, but I rely on their work heavily, and the solidarity is meaningful.
PLMUV9A4UP27D
At my company we make a niche software used by companies globally. Our plan was to arrange a conference in the US for our clients in North/Cental America. Considering the state of the US, we will probably cancel it, as we don't expect our Mexican and Canadian clients to feel comfortable at all. Neither do we at the head office in Europe.
We will instead host it in Europe most likely.
oefrha
Reminds me of [1] from 2013, and [2][3] from 2017. This is not new at all, just affecting more people, and more importantly, more Western people now.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/05/us-scientist…
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14643467
[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24369233
Clarification: the “not new” part is foreign attendees not being able to attend conferences in the U.S. So, if you valued inclusion, holding international conferences in the U.S. has been a bad idea for a long time.
Calwestjobs
[flagged]
sam-cop-vimes
Hear hear. Great initiative. I am not in the US but I do feel threatened by the way the US is conducting itself these days. It's time for people working in tech to push back.
spiderfarmer
I heard last night from my friend who works in astronomy that they decided to cancel their event in the US and let the US attendees travel to Europe instead.
I can’t get used to the fact that the US seems dead set on destroying its reputation in the world.
But with the direction the comment section of HN has taken over the last few years I’m sure there will be lots of commenters who will dismiss this as virtue signaling.
mmooss
[flagged]
anfilt
RISC-V moved to Switzerland as well a while ago. I think it's a shame to see stuff like this happening. Regardless, of where one stands currently in the current environment making standards bodies want to move or move events to other countries is not a good.
userbinator
[flagged]
arketyp
I understand the sentiment that the Trump administration is draconian, especially for people traveling from abroad considering the new border policy. But, pardon me, how is that executive order about sex a "threat"? Listed as the top issue undermines the credibility of this petition I think.
oldgradstudent
Is this a parody?
> Beyond problems at the border, the current Secretary for Health and Human Services – Robert F. Kennedy Jr. – has said that he will send those with ADHD to camps. Source: Futurism.
What he actually said:
> "I’m going to dedicate that revenue to creating wellness farms — drug rehabilitation farms, in rural areas all over this country," he said during the podcast. "I’m going to make it so people can go, if you’re convicted of a drug offense, or if you have a drug problem, you can go to one of these places for free."
That what happens when you rely on Futurism as a source.
purplezooey
I have been going to IETFs on and off for 20 years. As if the past few months were not nauseating enough in the US, I never thought I would see my own country on a page like this, and described in this way, and I feel even more deeply saddened, ashamed and horrified.
0x127AB3128
[dead]
geeezzzzzz
[flagged]
gabaix
> Some have been tortured.
Is there any evidence of this?
stopdadrama
[flagged]
blackeyeblitzar
[flagged]
userbinator
[flagged]
promiseofbeans
Regardless of your take on this, it's very interesting to see the UI components they're using. These look identical to the gov.uk system, but I wasn't aware of it being available for use outside of their government websites.
Abdgaf15957
[flagged]
edwardjlsh
> Some have been tortured.
Any reputable news sources for this?
z3ratul163071
[flagged]
phtrivier
The tech community has an interesting role to play here – I wonder how long it will take for gafam to start having issues recruiting skilled foreigners (or simply flying them to the US for interviews.)
It's not too much of a problem now, as t
Big Tech is not in the "software business" so much as in the "laying off people to make the stock look good" ; but at some point they'll have to bring people in to actually write code.
Or, are they expexting LLMs to really make the bulk of the jobs?
Or maybe everything settles down in two years, and this is just a bout of neo-McCarthyism.
Time will tell. In the meantime, I guess Europe must not be that bad, if people are organizing conferences here instead of China or Dubai ?
assimpleaspossi
In the meantime, millions of foreigners travel the USA without issue and have a great time.
Enjoy the sites. Eat some great food and make some friends. All are welcome here.
I will now spend some time looking up five articles of American citizens detained in some way in Europe and other parts of the world.
theyinwhy
As the current US administration is breaching the ietf's own code of conduct [1] this should be a no brainer.
[1] https://www.ietf.org/administration/policies-procedures/code…
user3939382
[flagged]
damnitbuilds
What are Palestine's policies on trans people?
Are these people also running a petition to ask for the cessation of support for hateful Palestine and support for gay-friendly Israel?
Thought not.
bloppe
This website mixes some very real and very big problems (erosion of basic freedoms and rights in the US) with some entirely hallucinated ones (concentration camps for people with ADHD, and torture? I'd certainly want to learn more about that than a passing mention).
Personally I think the hyperbole only serves to cheapen the real problems.
greybox
Iceland is a nice halfway point between the EU and the American continent, its a 5 hour flight from Boston and a 3.5 hour flight from London, its not a bad place to consider
throawayonthe
[dead]
hackpelican
> * A French scientist was deported for holding views critical of the Trump administration. Source: The Guardian.
* A Welsh backpacker was detained for 19 days. Source: BBC News.
* A Canadian actor was detained for 2 weeks. Source: The Guardian.
* A German engineer with permanent residency in the US (Green Card) is currently being detained. Source: The Guardian.
* Two German tourists were held for two weeks and nearly two months, respectively. Source: Deutsche Welle.
I find the nationalities chosen interesting.
This wouldn’t have the same effect if the scientists, backpackers, actors and tourists were Lybian, Kenyan, Mongolian or Chinese.
The only reason this is now a “movement” is because Europeans are being held and treated like many other nationalities.
jisnsm
Trump Derangement Syndrome was hilarious his first mandate but now it’s starting to get really sad.
HexDecOctBin
@dang Why is this flagged? Even without the politics, knowing that a large cohort is not going to attend in an important piece of information.
eqvinox
Wondering why this is flagged. Sure, it's politics, but it's also a serious issue on one of the major internet SDOs. It's certainly relevant for "good hackers"?