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ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC by miiiiiike

ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC by miiiiiike

ALICE detects the conversion of lead into gold at the LHC by miiiiiike

33 Comments

  • Post Author
    datadrivenangel
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:06 pm

    This is specifically a new way of converting lead into gold (in sub-microscopic, radioactive quantities) from the near-misses at CERN, not just direct target bombardment inside a particle accelerator.

  • Post Author
    Bluestein
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:11 pm

    ALHCemy?

  • Post Author
    hbarka
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:12 pm

    Alchemists are vindicated.

  • Post Author
    DrScientist
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:17 pm

    It does make you wonder whether the physicists obsession [1] of turning base metals into gold – is the real reason for the LHC :-)

    [1] Newton famously spent around 30 years of his life on alchemy ( the other stuff were really side projects )

  • Post Author
    725686
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:18 pm

    So, the only thing alchemists needed was a large particle collider. They were way ahead of their time.

  • Post Author
    1970-01-01
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:21 pm

    29 picograms.

    Just need to scale it by 1000000000000x to get a money printer.

  • Post Author
    comrade1234
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:24 pm

    Something from l Ron Hubbard’s mission earth scifi series has stuck with me for years. Basically in preparation for an undercover mission to earth the protagonist (who’s more of an antagonist really) goes to a place in his city full of fusion plants and orders a bunch of gold to bring with him. It ends up being so much gold that it would crash the earth’s economies…

    But what stuck with me was this idea of ordering elements on demand.

  • Post Author
    shadowgovt
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:30 pm

    So it turns out the Philosopher's Stone is real, it just involves a 10,000-ton detection apparatus, a 17-mile-diameter accelerator tube as a source of prima, and a quark-gluon plasma.

    Alchemists just had a skill issue.

    (ETA: technically, so do the physicists if one wanted to actually get gold out of these interactions; the gold nuclei are coming out of the interactions with highly-random trajectories and just spalling into the collector or the downstream pipe, where the nuclei fall apart under the wild energies of a nearlight-velocity interaction. Can't use the gold if you can't slow it down to human-hands speed. Of course, at the energies and quantities we're talking about, it'd be cheaper to go into the asteroid belt, find a gold-heavy one, tow it to Earth, and dump it in a convenient ocean if you really want a bunch of gold).

  • Post Author
    nnnnico
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:32 pm

    Time to buy bitcoin?

  • Post Author
    selimnairb
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:36 pm

    HFTs gonna hook up to LHC and do femtosecond gold futures arb. plays.

  • Post Author
    abramN
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:38 pm

    Trump is going to be all over this – we can turn lead into gold everyone! Our problems are solved!

  • Post Author
    bochoh
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:38 pm

    Thankfully no hydrocarbons were made otherwise Switzerland may have needed some freedom </s>

  • Post Author
    tunnuz
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:40 pm

    Had they been more more optimistic they would have called it MIDAS.

  • Post Author
    zingababba
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:42 pm

    Now do lead -> BTC

  • Post Author
    titaphraz
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:46 pm

    Are there economists here?

    If you could make (non radioactive) gold AND keep it secret, how much (oz?) could you produce a year without substantially affect gold's market value? Asking for a friend.

  • Post Author
    xpuente
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:46 pm

    AGI may finally arrive — the long-awaited gold transmutation dreamt of by modern "linear algebra" alchemists.

  • Post Author
    John23832
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:49 pm

    Random question. Historically, why have Lead and Gold been so closely linked? Why did alchemist focus on turning lead into gold (and not start with iron, or a rock like quartz)? Is it just because they're two heavy soft metals?

  • Post Author
    elashri
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:53 pm

    I just did a funny exercise (details are not interesting) to estimate how long would LHC and Alice need (assuming perfect conditions and ignoring any limitations) to get enough gold to fund FCC (15B CHF assuming today's gold price in CHF) on their own. And it would take about 185 billion years of continuous run. A reminder that the universe is about 14 billion years (ignoring the hubble tension for our purpose here)

  • Post Author
    riknos314
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:53 pm

    So the secret was just making the alchemical circle with a particle collider.

  • Post Author
    thenobsta
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:56 pm

    Nuclear physics wants to move everything towards Iron, right?

    Lead to gold could be an economically viable target for a fission. Produce a little bit of energy with a final product of gold. Buy the lead, sell the electrons and gold.

    This is way better than alchemy. We get real gold and a black gold alternative. ;)

  • Post Author
    omnee
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 3:56 pm

    The relevant part: "The ALICE analysis shows that, during Run 2 of the LHC (2015–2018), about 86 billion gold nuclei were created at the four major experiments. In terms of mass, this corresponds to just 29 picograms (2.9 ×10-11 g)."

    Just need to scale it by trillions to make 1 ounce, but transmutation of lead to gold – the dream of many alchemists – is now just a by product of particle accelerators.

  • Post Author
    _alternator_
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:01 pm

    Sorta buried in there, but they do note that this is not the first time the transmutation of lead to gold has been accomplished, just the first time it’s been accomplished as near misses in a particle accelerator.

  • Post Author
    abetaha
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:02 pm

    So those alchemists of many years ago probably had a collider as well.

  • Post Author
    mcphage
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:04 pm

    I remember there being an episode of Ancient Aliens (or some similar show) wondering whether the reason Aliens were coming to Earth was for our gold—and then at the end of the entire episode, they spoke to a scientist who said "Yeah, if you want some Gold, they can just make it in a particle accelerator". I thought it was pretty great—an entire show about something outlandish, and then just blow the entire idea up at the very end.

  • Post Author
    jgalt212
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:15 pm

    F fusion! Alchemy is real. We're rich!

  • Post Author
    ck2
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:17 pm

    fun-fact: kilonovas can produce "earth sized" chunks of gold

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/27/world/kilanova-gold-2016-scn-…

  • Post Author
    pfdietz
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:18 pm

    There are much easier ways to convert lead into gold.

    If neutrons could be made an order of magnitude cheaper (hello, Helion?), conversion of Hg-196 into gold by neutron capture might even be economical. The isotope would have to be separated but there's an interesting way of doing that using magnetic separation of electronically excited atoms. The total gold production would be just a fraction of current global gold production from mines.

  • Post Author
    agildehaus
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:44 pm

    Gold-197? The article does not specify.

  • Post Author
    moomin
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:49 pm

    Ok, that’s one item on the Alchemic Programme checked off. What’s problem #2? I think it’s immortality.

  • Post Author
    billiam
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:50 pm

    Just pointing out that this silly exercise was mostly powered by nuclear reactors in France that (besides fission) transmute Uranium into Plutonium.

  • Post Author
    Havoc
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 4:56 pm

    LHC self-funding secured!

  • Post Author
    keepamovin
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 5:16 pm

    Using this kind of high energy light, here emitted by the near-miss collisions themselves, might be a way to reduce radioactivity in contaminated sites. The photos could knock out a few protons and neutrons transforming the Uranium or Plutonium or whatever into less radioactive nuclei.

  • Post Author
    deadbabe
    Posted May 9, 2025 at 5:34 pm

    Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if the ability to transform one element into any other element was cheap and readily available. Probably everything would be destroyed in no time.

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